Reading. Microsoft mentions "looping the 747".

I have looped the LearJet in Flight Unlimited III but doubt I could ever
loop a 747.

Just curious.

I wrote:

> I have looped the LearJet in Flight Unlimited III but doubt I could ever
> loop a 747.

Sorry, I was thinking "roll" instead of loop.

I guess that falls under similar enough subject matter.

You would probably have to put it into a shallow dive to build up some speed
and then just crank the yoke back and wait.

JK

"John Doe" > wrote in message
...
> Reading. Microsoft mentions "looping the 747".
>
> I have looped the LearJet in Flight Unlimited III but doubt I could ever
> loop a 747.
>
> Just curious.

I think it is true to say that it is possible to 'roll' any aircraft.
Because if done properly, there should be no more than a very slight extra
strain on the airframe. 'Looping' a 747 is another matter entirely! You have
to pull a lot of G in a loop... I would, perhaps, be prepared to risk it in
a Flight Simulator though, providing I had a stiff whisky and a sandwich by
my side, and a couple of attractive (non PC) nurses to fan my brow
afterwards :-)

"Quilljar" > wrote in message
...
> I think it is true to say that it is possible to 'roll' any aircraft.
> Because if done properly, there should be no more than a very slight extra
> strain on the airframe.

Depends on the kind of roll. But yes, it is theoretically possible to
maintain low G forces throughout an entire roll. Witness the 707 prototype
that was rolled over Lake Washington back in the 60's.

Not all rolls have this characteristic though.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "Quilljar" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I think it is true to say that it is possible to 'roll' any aircraft.
> > Because if done properly, there should be no more than a very slight
extra
> > strain on the airframe.
>
> Depends on the kind of roll. But yes, it is theoretically possible to
> maintain low G forces throughout an entire roll. Witness the 707
prototype
> that was rolled over Lake Washington back in the 60's.
>
> Not all rolls have this characteristic though.
>
> Pete
>
Exactly. You're not going to aileron roll any large civil aircraft but
barrel rolls...possibly.

JB

Quilljar wrote:

> I think it is true to say that it is possible to 'roll' any aircraft.
> Because if done properly, there should be no more than a very slight extra
> strain on the airframe. 'Looping' a 747 is another matter entirely! You have
> to pull a lot of G in a loop... I would, perhaps, be prepared to risk it in
> a Flight Simulator though, providing I had a stiff whisky and a sandwich by
> my side, and a couple of attractive (non PC) nurses to fan my brow
> afterwards :-)

Actually, even a loop can be low G when executed correctly. I've met and
spoke with on a number of occasions an ex-test pilot for the Boeing
MD-NOTAR Helicopters. The test pilots would have informal contests with
one another to see who could pull off the lowest G's while looping their
helicopters. He could keep the max + G forces below 1.5, and supposably
the other pilot could keep it below 1 G.

The key is forward momentum combined with making the loop more oval then
round. Keep your airspeed high (well above maneuvering speed), start a
shallow climb and slowing increase the angle of climb until you reach
the point at which you are nearly at the top of the loop. Since the
airspeed is nearly at the stall speed now, you can pull back on the yoke
more sharply with significantly increasing the G-load. Bring the bird
over the top and then come out of the loop slow and gradual.

As long as you keep + G-forces on an airplane, it doesn't know if it's
upside down or right side up. Think about the G force a 747 has to
endure when it hits severe turbulence at 450kts at 33,000. Those birds
can handle a lot.

A quick search on google found this dumbed down explanation of why it's
probably not a good idea to roll or loop a 747:

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_262.html

Here's the great video of the 707 doing a roll as part of an impromptu
promotional scheme:

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/707%20Roll.mpg

Now why not go try looping and rolling the 747 or 777 in FS2004? Can't
hurt! Maybe start on the ground and then use the Map mode to give
yourself a lot of altitude (but not too much because you want good air
density) - Say, 18,000' and 300 kts. :)

Best,

Randy

Randy Wentzel > wrote

<snip>

> A quick search on google found this dumbed down explanation of why it's
> probably not a good idea to roll or loop a 747:
>
> http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_262.html
>
> Here's the great video of the 707 doing a roll as part of an impromptu
> promotional scheme:
>
> http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/707%20Roll.mpg

Thanks. I am enjoying most of them.

> Now why not go try looping and rolling the 747 or 777 in FS2004? Can't
> hurt!

And please make a video of it.










Maybe start on the ground and then use the Map mode to give
> yourself a lot of altitude (but not too much because you want good air
> density) - Say, 18,000' and 300 kts. :)
>
> Best,
>
> Randy
>

> And please make a video of it.

OK! So I went ahead and looped the stock MS2004 747 above Travis AFB in
California, which is about 50 miles east of where I live. The video is
saved within FS2004, but I don't know how to pass it on. Do I need a
third-party utility?

Thanks,

Randy

Randy Wentzel > wrote

>> And please make a video of it.
>
> OK! So I went ahead and looped the stock MS2004 747 above Travis AFB in
> California, which is about 50 miles east of where I live. The video is
> saved within FS2004, but I don't know how to pass it on. Do I need a
> third-party utility?

Apparently, recordings are saved as "FSR" files in your My Documents
folder.

There are a bunch of ways to offer it on the Internet. For example, you can
post that binary file to (alt.binaries) on Usenet.

Others might know better.

> Apparently, recordings are saved as "FSR" files in your My Documents
> folder.

OK, I was searching for the .fsr file within the root FS9 folder. I have
gone ahead and uploaded the file to
http://www.sonic.net/randyw/fs2004/747Loop.FSR

Just save the file to your "\My Documents\Flight Simulator Files" folder
I assume. Open FS2004, start a flight anywhere, click on "options ->
fligth videos" and select the 747Loop video. You can change views using
the "S" key.

Let me know how that works out.

Best,

Randy

Randy Wentzel > wrote

>> Apparently, recordings are saved as "FSR" files in your My Documents
>> folder.
>
> OK, I was searching for the .fsr file within the root FS9 folder. I have
> gone ahead and uploaded the file to
> http://www.sonic.net/randyw/fs2004/747Loop.FSR
>
> Just save the file to your "\My Documents\Flight Simulator Files" folder
> I assume. Open FS2004, start a flight anywhere, click on "options ->
> fligth videos" and select the 747Loop video. You can change views using
> the "S" key.
>
> Let me know how that works out.

Worked great. Went from 4,000 to 17,000 to 400 feet during the 747 loop.

Would be even better if they allowed voice recording (I am guessing they do
not) so you could give me a clue about what, if anything of interest, is
happening.

Thanks, you dunnit.

> Worked great. Went from 4,000 to 17,000 to 400 feet during the 747 loop.
>
> Would be even better if they allowed voice recording (I am guessing they do
> not) so you could give me a clue about what, if anything of interest, is
> happening.
>
> Thanks, you dunnit.

Yeah, I almost hit the terra firma but managed to just make it! The only
thing that I did that you might not be able to tell in the video is that
I hit the flaps and speed brakes on the way back down to slow down as
much as possible. Before the loop I had to put the plane into a gentle
dive to build up a lot of speed (just look at the ASI).

Any other requests? :)

--
Randy

"Randy Wentzel" > wrote in message
...
> Quilljar wrote:
>
> > I think it is true to say that it is possible to 'roll' any aircraft.
> > Because if done properly, there should be no more than a very slight
extra
> > strain on the airframe. 'Looping' a 747 is another matter entirely! You
have
> > to pull a lot of G in a loop... I would, perhaps, be prepared to risk it
in
> > a Flight Simulator though, providing I had a stiff whisky and a sandwich
by
> > my side, and a couple of attractive (non PC) nurses to fan my brow
> > afterwards :-)
>
> Actually, even a loop can be low G when executed correctly. I've met and
> spoke with on a number of occasions an ex-test pilot for the Boeing
> MD-NOTAR Helicopters. The test pilots would have informal contests with
> one another to see who could pull off the lowest G's while looping their
> helicopters. He could keep the max + G forces below 1.5, and supposably
> the other pilot could keep it below 1 G.
>
> The key is forward momentum combined with making the loop more oval then
> round. Keep your airspeed high (well above maneuvering speed), start a
> shallow climb and slowing increase the angle of climb until you reach
> the point at which you are nearly at the top of the loop. Since the
> airspeed is nearly at the stall speed now, you can pull back on the yoke
> more sharply with significantly increasing the G-load. Bring the bird
> over the top and then come out of the loop slow and gradual.
>
> As long as you keep + G-forces on an airplane, it doesn't know if it's
> upside down or right side up. Think about the G force a 747 has to
> endure when it hits severe turbulence at 450kts at 33,000. Those birds
> can handle a lot.
>
> A quick search on google found this dumbed down explanation of why it's
> probably not a good idea to roll or loop a 747:
>
> http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_262.html
>
> Here's the great video of the 707 doing a roll as part of an impromptu
> promotional scheme:
>
> http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/707%20Roll.mpg
>
> Now why not go try looping and rolling the 747 or 777 in FS2004? Can't
> hurt! Maybe start on the ground and then use the Map mode to give
> yourself a lot of altitude (but not too much because you want good air
> density) - Say, 18,000' and 300 kts. :)
>
> Best,
>
> Randy

Surely to do a low G loop, you would need LOT'S of power or a very high
power to weight ratio - not what airliners have??

Clive